I do believe her though I know she lies,
That she might think me some untutored youth,
Unlearned in the world's false subtleties.
Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
Although she knows my days are past the best,
Simply I credit her false-speaking tongue;
On both side thus is simple truth suppressed.
But wherefore say not I that I am old?
O, love's best habit is in seeming trust,
And age in love loves not to have years told.
Therefore I lie with her and she with me,
And in our faults by lies we flattered be. -Shakespeare, 138
....
You like him don't you?
Blush
What do you like about him?
I like tall dudes.
Laughs.
Inhales.
Swigs.
Yeah they're both the same height
Chris says.
Um, Yeah. I don' know if you've noticed-but I'm sure everyone has- or at least I have- they look a lot a like.
Yeah but Tyler's got the abs going for him.
So that's what you like about him eh?
....Yeah.
What else do you like about him?
--Love's not real anyway. What the Fuck does it matter. Some one's going to cheat this way or that
Chris interrupts. Or leads. Or whatever you want.
Oh! If he cheats on me its over.
Yeah, If someone cheats its done
But what if they don't tell you?
Why would they tell you? "yeah I cheated on you" like gloating. That's sick. If someone cheats its over.
What if they can't help it? I mean.... if they're telling you aren't they trying to make amends? They could certainly just not tell you and continue on with the relationship. So would you rather no the truth or continue with the illusion?
I Would Want To Know.
What if you love them?
I'd still want to know.
And would it be over.
Definitely.
Even though you both love each other?
Obviously it's not love.
What's fidelity have to do with love?
It's a promise you make to another person.
A societal promise. A human creation.
Neither speak.
Awkward thoughts on the dark train stuck in the hollow tunnel.
I know it's confusing but if Love's not a human creation, why do we hold it to the bonds of something society deems? If they cheat it's over you say, but that's only if you know. He could very well never tell you, and you'd both go on as if it never happened. Or he could tell you. And as you say it would be over. But would the love end if the love was there? Isn't it only the societal promise that ends? Don't you feel that burning in your gut, the flutter of butterflies in reverse?
What are you trying to say Kushman?
If Love is something that is outside of society, and if society is but a set of illusions we create so that we can survive together-
-are you saying that society is a lie?
Somewhat. I'm saying that we're animals. And that the only thing that separates us from animals is the ability to choose. This or that. Some people might call it right or wrong but there never seems to be a black and white picture. So in a perfect society there would be no need for writing, or Internet, or words, or even language. We wouldn't need to speak because everything would be known, they're would be nothing to disagree over and thus nothing to dispute. There would be no cheating because their woud be nothing to cheat. We wouldn't have societies because nothing would ever change to make it so we set up rules.
We wouldn't need to speak?
Yeah. Or not in the sense we think of it. We wouldn't need to communicate the way we do. Have you ever heard actions speak louder than words? If someones says they Love you, do you all of a sudden feel loved from the words, or do they open up a new perception of how life has been with that person? It's not as if love was created from that word, It's as if you've all of a sudden found the key to understanding the puzzle. And perhaps you find they love you, or perhaps you find that it was only wasted words. The ability to choose, to discern, is inside the words. Do we really need those words in a perfeft world? Aren't they just keys to understanding parts of life? Can't they be right or wrong? Or are they right or wrong?
...yeah. I guess.
So, I'm going to ask you again. If society is all a lie, and if a relationship is a societal promise, than would you rather have the man you love tell you he cheated on you, or would you rather not know?
I would want to know.
See. You say that. But I don't really believe most of us would choose the truth over the illusion.
Why do you say that?
Because what's another lie on top of one you are already living? Nothing really. The love you have sits atop the fictious creation of what society deems. If you come to the realization that the promise was only fiction, a little lie in front of others, won't your whole world you've created come tumbling down and leave you with the that miserable feeling that is love? Is it not unbearable? Can't you only live with it for a little while before your forced to simulate a new world, A new way, a new path?
So you're saying you'd rather not know?
I'm saying that a relationship should not be governed by anything but love, and that everything else around it is a lie, and does not matter, and that often we take to much from the illusions around us. Don't think that I believe illusions corrupt love, but only that it suppresses its growth.
So you're saying you'd rather not know?
I'm saying that when you say "it's over," the relationship formed between the two of you is not over, merely the illusions it was based upon have ended, and you're left with what is "real" between the two of you. Maybe you'll stay lovers, Maybe you'll become friends, or perhaps you'll never speak again, or shortly. But what has been created between the two of you will always be their, and it will be very, very "real".
Relationships do not change with words but with revelations.
How could you stay with someone who cheated on you?
Forgiveness.
Ah! How could you ever forgive someone who cheated on you?
Love.
Isn't that a choice on its own Kushman?
Maybe it's the only illusion worth having.
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